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  Intimit1

  Account closed

  I had an affair many years ago now & my co-respondent had been cheated on by her ex & had no qualms about doing the same to another woman. To my view she almost took a perverse joy in being ‘the other woman’. My marriage didn’t survive & now I’ve repartnered & while there is still a disparity in our sexual needs, I’m as horny as fuck basically!, being open & honest has allowed us to venture into different worlds that we negotiate our sexuality in. Can I recommend a fb group, Relationship Anarchy for thought provoking insights.

  >4w

  

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    Whitesnake0504

    Account closed

    Was her name Jolene?

    >4w

    

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  1966Rani

  63M 58F Sydney, NSW,

   AU

  Well this article must hit a few nerves on a dating site like this, we love it. Seriously my wife and I both had affairs in our previous relationships, and yes it was a messy ending. My ex-wife decided she really wanted to be a lesbian, and that leads me to my point. Humans are complex creatures that have so many different stimuli, I don't need to list them you get my drift. The problem, I think is, we want open and honest communication, but only accept it if it is what we want to hear. If it is not then communication breaks down very quickly. The second thing we do is give ourselves or other people labels, and thus placing them in a box. From here there is an expectation that they have to act and behave in a certain way. Forgetting people change over time, my ex for example, and change bring insecurity,

  In summary I think affairs are a normal part of a human behavior, and this is supported by the evidence of this website and many like it. People searching out like minded others.

  >4w

  

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    Kind67

    Account closed

    I don't think affairs are normal part of human behaviour.... That's a cop out. You can't generalize and speak for all of us. There are cultures that stone to death adulterers... Because wealth and lineage belong to the male heir. Imagine the chaos that would follow if children that aren't biologically entitled were to receive wealth or titles.

    We are not animals that can't control urges and you can't justify betrayal of trust away like that. People hurt when partners cheat. Stay or not is up to the individual but we have no right to hurt our partners like that. It's cruel andcallous, and self entitled and immature. Put up, shut up or leave. It's basic tenant of adulting.

    This site is not just for dishonest people but a community of people in search of a perfect lover. Most become friends for years it's a great platform for women who wants sexual equality. I've no use for a man otherwise.

    Gentleman 1976 please don't be threatened by women who demand sexual equality in bed we are single, beautiful, and financially independent. And do not date married men. That's our prerogative because we stand on our own. Our love is for our sisters who vowed to be loved and cherished by her husband. Some of us do not want to hurt our sisters who is emotionally invested in her husband. I have no need for men. I have the right to demand sexual equality. In fact my toys does a great job better than some. So clearly I'm not totally dependent on any lover.

    >4w

    
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    Sexylawcurves

    50F Williamstown, VIC,

     AU

    I totally agree with your sentiment here 1966Rani. Kinda67, monogamy was indeed constructed by men and the church to control the distribution of their assets.

    That’s not a good thing though, it’s just another way for men and other women to control what we do with our own bodies.

    I believe I’m responsible for all of the relationships in my life, I am not however responsible for any of my lovers relationships and state on my profile that you’re relationship status is none of my concern’

    Have fun and be who you are xx

    Gentlemen1976

    I think you have completely misinterpreted the sentiments being shared by myself and the original commenter on this thread.

    Happy to debate all day if you’d like to send me a message, but honestly not necessary. The church certainly contributed too and supported the creation of monogamy but I’m not sure, other than in the context of what I’ve already mentioned, the policing of other women, what you’re referring too when you ask about the roles women played. Perhaps re-read after you have removed the ‘not all men’ lense you have applied.

    >4w

    
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    JustForHotFun81

    43M VIC,

     AU

    Wow girls there's some pretty sexist statements there.

    Maybe try rereading that swapping out the genders and ask yourselves if you truly believe in equality.

    I think a little more honesty on the history of gender inequality and the complicit roles played by both the women of the time and the churches is warranted here. This is bordering on misandrism.

    A little less far left judgmentalism and a little more love for people please. They are doing their best in some very testing circumstances.

    >4w

    

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  Blue262

  55M Hunters Hill, NSW,

   AU

  Being devious is becoming normalized, got it.

  >4w

  

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  Br3tt81

  Account closed

  There are no good or bad people, only happy and unhappy...

  >4w

  

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  friskypuz

  Account closed

  Was talking about this just last night with hubby,

  While he knows and is happy for me to have a lover, I prefer a man who is married as there is less likely for attachment, they go home.

  I like being the other woman, l figure if he was getting the attention at home he wouldn't be going elsewhere, if he gets caught it's his problem to deal with.

  It's a physical thing not an emotional thing, once attachment or emotions happen it's time to move on..

  And yes my husband has the same freedom if he wants to..

  >4w

  

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    1966Rani

    63M 58F Sydney, NSW,

     AU

    We agree and operate on the same principle, the core being we are open and honest. If we flirt and engage with someone else we don't have to lie, and we are not cheating.

    >4w

    
  • 

    tubcouple

    Account closed

    We agree. Lots of married guys we have had in a MFM situation are simply desperate for sexual intimacy. We don't go into the reasons nor judge them. A good number have commented how they wish that they had a relationship like ours where the wife enjoys sex for its own sake. We haven't played with a married woman but imagine that wives can feel the same way.

    >4w

    

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  • 

    Bbcknight

    Account closed

    Uhmmm....both sexes are equally at fault.

    Women are just as deceitful as men.

    >4w

    
  • 

    JustForHotFun81

    43M VIC,

     AU

    I think this is a little short sighted.

    Every relationship is different. Every relationship is challenging.

    There will not be a single relationship out there that is the same as the one in which you were cheated on; and people will never feel as you did at the time.

    I see this as no different to judging someone on their physical appearance or sexual orientation.

    We each have a right to control who we choose to share ourselves with. Frankly its no one elses business to judge that.

    >4w

    
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  pedro57

  Account closed

  My experience has been that there is often some deep lying issue in a relationship ...that continue despite honest communication occuring between a couple regarding such issues... before extra marital affairs occur... i dont comment or have opinions on others if im not fully aware of their personal situation...

  >4w

  

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  Becausesexisfun

  Account closed

  I read this very quickly and what I got from it was that our wants and needs are very simple but the methods we employ to satisfy them are over complicated and for the most part deceitful and manipulative not only to those around us but ourselves.

  >4w

  

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  InsideVoice

  54M Brunswick East, VIC,

   AU

  Life is not black or white, right or wrong. Retreating to absolutes betrays a lack of empathy, intellect and experience. People like this are so uncomfortable with values other than their own they shut down the open communication necessary to accommodate differing or evolving emotional needs or sexual desires. The communication and needs will go elsewhere. Mr / Ms Absolute will attribute blame to the other when the relationship fails. Repeat.

  >4w

  

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  DeerPool1978

  Account closed

  Judge away if you must however you don’t know the circumstances of some else’s life.

  For those who show a more emphatic and nuanced understanding of people as we are, you don’t need a reward, it is called being a decent human being.

  This is sex site, judging people or complaining about some ones preferences, devious or choices is rather sad.

  >4w

  

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  AugustusSeizer

  Account closed

  Ancient Chinese proverb: "Do not blame the sea for coming through the hole in your boat."

  >4w

  

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    MrWoof1975

    49M St Clair, NSW,

     AU

    Shitty tradesmen always blame their tools

    >4w

    

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  Ifuwannadome

  61F Hobart, TAS,

   AU

  My ex cheated on me........

  Reason youd never believe me but he did me a major favour in the long run

  But his choice;;;;shame hes all alone now

  >4w

  

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  gigi39

  51M 49F Yarraville, VIC,

   AU

  I am the M in our profile, I have serviced lots of women that were either married or had long term partners. All had the same problem, partners that were not looking after their needs.

  The women that I met and serviced wanted to be treated they way I treated them. Most of their partners would have sex to serve their own needs, rather than satisfying both of their needs.

  Most men in these relationships would only seek to satisfy themselves and not their partners. Their sex would not last past 15 minutes and after the initial courting period, would be self serving rather than ensuring both partners were satisfied.

  In my experience, the women that I serviced would have liked their partners to stay with them, but once they had experienced a guy that looked after their needs and serviced them for hours on end, treated them with respect, had conversations, and actually paid attention to them, they could no longer stay in their relationships. All of these women ended up leaving their partners as they would be more confident and now knew what they wanted and deserved.

  As for my marriage, we are still going strong, I have shared my past experiences with my wife, and she has reciprocated, we talked about our fantasies and now live them with the assistance of this site.

  We both have enjoyed other partners together and we continue to do so, as we both want to satisfy each other, we both listen to each other and watch each other with other sexual partners.

  We are honest in our desires and find that as long as we involve each other, and tell each other about the experiences we are having, we continue to have a loving marriage.

  If you can satisfy each other and listen to each other, the cheating won’t come into it, if you are happy with the service you are getting, you will only go to another service provider with the consent of your partner.

  I hope that men don’t read this, as if they start paying attention to their women and actually providing them with good service, I will be driven out of business. Why would they need me, if they are receiving good service.

  All of you, pay attention to your partners and both of your needs and desires, you will both benefit and have a lasting relationship.

  >4w

  

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  MrWoof1975

  49M St Clair, NSW,

   AU

  Let’s say you’re applying for a job. After discussing monthly salary, conditions, bonuses etc... you’re accepted to a trial period. After that period is over, your employer is over the moon with you and offers you full time employment. You put in the work and are great at what you do. You get promotions and bonuses and you’re really loving working there. After being there for a while, recession hits and work is a little slower. You’re still putting in the effort but your figures are not what they used to be. At the board room meeting, ideas and plans are discussed to pick up sales and they’re put into place in the hope of improving things. Some time goes by and you get a letter from the bank saying you’re two months behind on your mortgage. “What?! No! There must be some kind of mistake. The mortgage repayments come out of my account automatically!” So you log on and check your account..... $0.43! You look at the history and find that about 4 months ago your pay decreased and kept decreasing and you haven’t in fact been paid in three weeks! Something’s not right here so you call your boss to sort it all out......

  “Yeah, the company wasn’t doing to well so we had to sack a whole bunch of people and cut the remaining employee wages in half. We actually continued to fire people until we were back in the black and sorry, but you haven't been an employee for almost a month now”

  What?!? How?!? Why?!? You can’t!”

  “What do you mean we can’t?!?! The economy was bad so we did what we had to!”

  To all those saying things like “don’t judge, you don’t know other people’s circumstances or reasons for cheating” I say “grow the f**k up!”

  Differences, diversities, changes, monogamy and judging others has nothing to do with cheating. It’s not something that happens accidentally and if it happened to someone without them choosing it, well the word for that is rape!

  Cheating is a choice.

  Be it your husband, wife, brother, sister, child, parent, partner..... if you and ANYONE walk away from a discussion with an understanding of how things are; as a human being you are obliged to keep that promise. If/when you can’t/don’t want to maintain the understanding the other person has of the situation, you must let them know BEFORE you change it. No one is saying you must stay in a situation that no longer suits you however the other must be afforded the decency of not continuing to work for a company where he is not being paid nor considered an employee at all.

  I’ll repeat....

  Cheating is a choice....... It’s a choice you make that robs someone else of their’s.

  >4w

  

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• 

  AugustusSeizer

  Account closed

  Here's a long reflective post. Get a cup of tea and settle in. Or quickly click away. :-)

  I've looked over a lot of comments and personal observations on this topic. They broadly fall into two groups: those who have been hurt by a partner's affair and those who are understanding (and presumably were often the ones who *had* the affair or were Involved). In the "affair group" there seem to be mostly people who got there by slowly intensifying degrees of unhappiness and despair. These people are seen by the betrayed partners as having chosen to cross a line of some kind.

  Both groups are right. And wrong.

  There are two factors interplaying. One is Loss Aversion and the other is "shades of grey" (in the traditional meaning, *not* a reference to el cheapo BDSM fantasies).

  There is no "line" that gets crossed by the person getting into an affair. What happens is that someone feeling empty and abandoned and unwanted (to name a few), has an Encounter. The person notices Being Noticed and feels a buzz. That can happen in passing with the other person Who Noticed never being seen again. If you're Not Noticed at home for a long time that experience is an electric shock. A day, a week, a month, a year later there may be a Comment From A Stranger or some other interaction - at a cafe, in a bank queue,... that is Another Electric Shock. The chance encounter leads to a conversation. And *that* person may never be seen again.

  No line has been crossed. As such. Then again, an important line HAS been crossed - someone other than my partner SEES me. It's not so much a "crossing of a line". There's no sudden night-to-day. It's a process of "dawning". At that point it is too late to "talk about things" - those not-properly-understood feelings of the isolation and unhappiness have been going on for too long. "Where do I start?" The soon-to-be-wronged partner will initially reject complaints ("Hasn't been a problem before - years - why now?") which then distances the about-to-be-cheater.

  Then the Loss Aversion kicks in. Loss aversion is a very well researched thinking process (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion for good coverage including criticisms). It's been understood for a very long time but only fully researched in recent decades. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" is about loss aversion. And that ratio of 1:2 is what the research shows.

  $100 in my hand has the roughly equivalent emotional strength as a potential win of $200 (loss aversion dissipates at small values) . Keep in mind that loss aversion is mostly a positive thing - it keeps us from being distracted by random potential benefits. But it can also be the basis of a trap.

  To cheaters... "Is the person I'm now involved with (having coffee, walks on the beach, an *emotional* relationship right?) MUCH MORE THAN TWICE the value of my partner? No. So I'm not going to leave my partner for this new person."

  If the cheater begins Formal Cheating - that is, having sex. "New person yet more than twice the value? Nope. So I'm still not leaving." But notice that the evaluation of the "stay-go decision" was established LONG before the sex. It is a familiar thing now. There was no "line". Just developed steadily - often as internal emotional states NOT as "Heh heh heh I'm gonna fuck that...!" even if that type of thought happens eventually.

  How is the Loss Aversion trap escaped? The ratio must change dramatically from 1:2. One way is if the the "1" is heavily reduced or the "2" is heavily increased . That is, the existing relationship is devalued (external good treatment leads the "cheater" to be less accepting of bad treatment at home) or the external attraction becomes ever more attractive as the two get closer and know each other better. Another way is for the "1" to heavily increase or the "2" to heavily decrease. That is, the existing relationship is "up-valued" perhaps because the affair helps the "cheater" recognise "what is really important" and the partners begin to solve their problems? Or the "cheater" can discover that the external person is not really what s/he wants - of course, that ends *that* affair but the underlying issues remain.

  The thing is, as I said in an earlier post, "Ancient Chinese proverb: 'Do not blame the sea for coming through the hole in your boat.' " Another person responded with "Shitty tradesmen always blame their tools". That's mostly true. But some poor tradesmen can be tradies who recognise their limits. Some have actually have said to me "Sorry, I'm not skilled enough to do that job." And I once saw in a movie (Jaws) a scene in which a huge shark was present and a crew member said "You're gonna need a bigger boat" - that is, "you've got poor tools for this job".

  Some bottom lines: If you've been "cheated on" you have a "contributory negligence case" to answer. If you're angry it's likely because you refuse to accept your own negligence and your part in the problem. Suck it up. Accept the *relationship* has problems - and *relationships* involve more than one person. You're either solving the problem/s together or there IS NO RELATIONSHIP any more. And maybe there should never have been.

  If you've "cheated" you probably need some good doses of counseling (initially on your own) so that you can work out who you are, what you want, what has changed, what is the same, and what you need to be happy. Otherwise NOTHING can work - not even the new bright sparkly connection. Go to see three or four counselors/therapists - it can be hard to find someone you like. Your GP (or a strange GP if yours is the one For The Family) can get you 6? 12? psychology sessions on Medicare. But note that psychologists may be "free" but offer very different services from counselors/therapists. Do some reading, talk to people, to work out what support you need. And ACT. From where you are now it only gets worse, a lot worse, before it gets better in the existing relationship or the new one.

  Good luck.

  Oh... and for reference? I've been an "Other". I had to watch a woman I loved be ignored and taken for granted by her idiot husband, That was very difficult. At one level it's nice to know she was torn between us. Hey, theory says that means I'm literally twice the man that he is, right? But it's a failing grade because I needed to be 2.5x or 3x "the man that he is" for her to break free. I'm a great guy but not THAT great. So she stayed. And remains unhappy - and ashamed and diminished for having "cheated" rather than blaming her unhappiness on his absolute cluelessness and her inability to draw a line and act on it. But it's shades of grey everywhere and she's lost in the fog. Maybe *I* am the "victim"? Or maybe there are no "victims" in love. Maybe it's just life.

  >4w

  

  • 

    MrWoof1975

    49M St Clair, NSW,

     AU

    Sorry mate, but I’m going to have to shoot you down here.

    The issue with these arguments is that everyone is trying to put forward their opinion based on THEIR definition of cheating. Some see it as any interaction with another and some don’t consider it cheating until it’s sex.

    This is not, nor has it ever been the debate between right or wrong.

    You say no line has been crossed...? How do you know? You can’t! You’re saying that under the assumption there’s only one line that applies to all as to when it’s considered cheating. This is quite simply not the case.

    But make no mistake, every person who cheats has crossed a line. And this line is the only line there is and applies to absolutely everyone. The line, simply put, is this:

    “We promise to remain true to the arrangement we’ve agreed on.”

    Whatever that agreement looks like and whatever the parameters or dynamics or semantics are will differ between one person and the next. However regardless of what it looks like, when one party doesn’t honour that promise, that my friend is cheating.

    >4w

    

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• 

  Twistsandbends

  Account closed

  Thanks for a very informative and intelligent article

  Just for the record I have had affairs both when married and when single but I regret those decisions even though I recognise that it was a necessary part of my journey

  Here is a rhyme I wrote some time back

  Thank you for you invite to be the bit in the side

  But I have to decline because I have nothing to hide

  And I have no desire to cross that line

  And indeed you may call me prudish

  And even snobbish

  but in my defence

  it makes no sense

  To be the invisible lay

  Cause at the end of the day

  When all said and done

  No one has won

  For being party to infidelity diminishes my sense of worth

  That’s why I give married men the wide birth

  Putting it simply I’m not available for your need to stray

  And the excitement of that illicit roll in the hay

  And although tempted I won’t

  change my mind

  But hope you remember me as one of a kind

  Because i am not sitting in judgement

  But merely making a personal statement

  And for the records i not a believer in monogamy

  But rather I am a staunch believe in honesty

  Plus also paramount on my list is integrity

  As that helps to keep my sanity

  So sorry I can’t agree to be the safe port in a storm

  Even though my pussy is inviting and warm

  Sadly my heart too needs some much needed attention

  Just thought that fact I would mention

  Cause like you I have my ego to feed

  But endeavour not to succumb to my primal greed

  If there is another person kept in the dark

  Whilst you and I fucked just for a lark

  Hope my point of view has left its mark

  >4w

  

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  notthatdark

  63M Wagga Wagga, NSW,

   AU

  I myself am no stud .. But do enjoy quality sex with sexual ladies.. No one man can keep up with a highly sexual lady.. This is what I have found in the past.. Only 2 partners I have had possessed this high drive and as stated I am no great stud and feel not one man alone could keep up with either lady .. In both cases it was accept they needed more or get out.. Both were not into group play but did desire the company of other men.. The sex was just the best .. So is that really cheating?

  >4w

  

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